Ny reblogg Norah4History mtDNA o 1100-tals källa kan stötta varandra

Frågan är hur långt de nordbor som bodde på Grönland tog sig. Speciellt hur långt svenskar, norskar, basker och skottar kom i Syd-Västerled. Rebloggen med tillstånd av Genetikern för fram mycket intressant mtDNA-information som vi bör diskutera utan förutfattade meningar. En fråga som jag personligen många gånger ställt mig under åren är: Varför tror historiker, arkeologer och andra att nordmän på Grönland skulle vara mindre intresserad av att följa kuster, floder o.s.v. än vad samma nationaliteter var under Vikingatiden och århundradena efteråt?

More Y-SNP calls for Chachapoyas

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The history of the lower Kennebec, länk Norah4history

Lade nyss ut The history of the lower Kennebec, still more to tell re. North America’s History

liten glimt ur texten: ”……they found a champion land and very fertile, where they remayned all that night. In the morning of the 25th, they departed from thence and sayled up the river and came to a flatt, low land, where is a great cataract or downfall of water, which runneth by both sides of this island, very shold and swift. In this island they found great store of grapes, both redd and white ; good hopps, as also chiballs and garlike ….”

När hittades detta? 1607

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Vikingarna nådde längre än känt och nordbor bosatte sig vid Korsnes

Nationaldagsgåva till USA 4th July 2015

En liten del av mitt stora manuskript om Nordborna har jag nu lagt ut på Norah4history eftersom alltför mycket desinformation tycks spridas där existerande gamla MS och dokument bevarade från Europa hela vägen bort till Kina ”glöms” bort…. Avhandlingar främst fram till 1780 på franska och latin tycks få ha orkat igenom senaste 100 åren utom de fransmän som finns på NEARA.

Här är dagens utlagda utdrag ur
Grönland och grönlänningarna,
det ”försvunna folket”
© Johansson Inger E, manuskriptet i 1997 års form rev.2015.

Vikingarna nådde längre än känt

Läs även:
Christian Bishop to Greenland and Vinland 1050! Early American History now forgotten

En del undrar kanske över alla revideringar. Varje person som skriver om äldre historia och är seriös är tvungen att revidera eller som minst omvärdera de källuppgifter som tidigare använts i samma ögonblick som ny kunskap läggs på bordet oaktat om den nya kunskapen kommer från skriftliga källor, arkeologiska utgrävningar eller geologers arbete i terräng som ger ny kunskap. Samma gäller för de nya DNA-studierna som visar att som minst ingifte mellan indianer och islänningar på ett fåtal gårdar i sydvästra Island där överfart ofta skedde till Grönland och NA.

Grönland, Export och kolonier
samt
Greenland, Vinland och Nicholas Bergthorsson

Slit utdragen med hälsan så länge det du kopierar eller refererar har ” Johansson Inger E, Göteborg, Sverige som källa.

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Early North American history part 3 – North American – Greenlandic – Norse History

The Kings Mirror

© Johansson Inger E, Greenland and the Greenlanders, the ”Missing people” manuscript 2000-01.

Background
Konungs skuggsjá, latin Speculum Regale written as an Medieval Age Schoolbook for King Magnus Lagabøte’s sons 1250/1260 AD. English title The Kings Mirror

What’s interesting is that the author, some say that it was Archbishop Einar Gunnarsson, show good skills in astronomy, teology, geography as well as early Norwegian and Foreign Litterature up to 1200’s. The book is written using methods we today call Didaktic methods</em. The author tells in detail using a dialoge form about humans and animals living on the other side of the Globe, the other side the Atlantic and also talks about Antipods

In the dialoge there are lots of information given indicating a good knowledge from north western Canada, Hudson Bay area to Greenland fishing and hunting. Good knowledge of how large farms on Greenland was. Information confirmed in our days thru Archaeologic excavations in North America, Islands north west of Greenland and of course in Greenland as well as Labrador.

dialoge in chapter 18
”Son. You stated earlier in your talk that no grain grows in that country; therefore I now want to ask you what the people who inhabit the land live on, how large the population is, what sort of food they have, and whether they have accepted Christianity.
Father. The people in that country are few, for only a small part is sufficiently free from ice to be habitable; but the people are all Christians and have churches and priests. If the land lay near to some other country it might be reckoned a third of a bishopric; but the Greenlanders now have their own bishop, as no other arrangement is possible on account of the great distance from other people. You ask what the inhabitants live on in that country since they sow no grain; but men can live on other food than bread. It is reported that the pasturage is good and that there are large and fine farms in Greenland. The farmers raise cattle and sheep in large numbers and make butter and cheese in great quantities. The people subsist chiefly on these foods and on beef; but they also eat the flesh of various kinds of game, such as reindeer, whales, seals, and bears. That is what men live on in that country.”

COMMENT:
Please note the good knowledge the Author of the book had of everyday life in Greenland in mid 1200’s.
Information given confirmed by Rousell A, Farms and churches in the Medieval Norse settlement of Greenland, Meddelelser of Grönland 86(1) as well as
The Roman Church in Norse Greenland, editor G F Bigelow, ”The Norse of the North Atlantic, Acta Archaeologica 61(1991) page 142-150 Köpenhamn

Example:
source: McGovern Thomas H, Bones, Building and Boundaries: Palaeoeconomic Approaches to Norse Greenland, page 213
‘Table 6 Floor area of selected structures of farms of the Eastern and Western Settlements’

Sandnes (W51)
hall in the main building 72 m²
barn 84 m²
storage barn 155 m²

Anavik (W7)
hall in the main building of unknown size
barn/stables 50 m²
storage barn 54 m²
magazine 38 m²

Also confirmed by
Bardarson Ivar, Det gamle Grönlands beskrivelse, Finnur Jonsons edition 1930 (Ivar Bardarson was a monk/priest who in 1340’s was first time was sent to Greenland and lived there some years. Later he lived in Norway before he was sent on a mission to collect tithes from the dioceses under Gardar See. He sailed in late 1350’s returned and delivered the tithes from among other the Crossnes diocese to a Papal delegate visiting Bergen in spring/early summer 1364.
For more information re Crossnes please read Early American History – now forgotten part 2

Information regarding the cheese production is confirmed due to cheese and butter being one of Greenlands export products to Europé up to early 1400’s. Among other documented in books from Queen Margaretha I:s ”fatabur”.

Short but essential information given in ”Kings Mirror”
” There is another kind called the Greenland shark, which is peculiar in this, that it has caul and fat in the abdomen like cattle. The largest of these whales grow to a length of thirty ells at most. ”

Comment: The Greenland shark was and still is common in water from northwestern Canada to Greenland.
Parts from Greenland shark was exported to Europeé together with ivory from Walrus. All documented in shipsdocuments and harbor papers in Orkney and England.

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Early American history – now forgotten part 2

Christian Bishop to Greenland and Vinland 1050!
Following might come as a big surprise not only to all Christian Believers in North and South America today 2015, but to most of the scholars of History who thought they couldn’t find anything in old still remaining documents, mostly parchments…..

BISHOP SENT TO AND VISITED GREENLAND AND THE VINLAND 1050s

Excepts from
© Johansson Inger E, Greenland and the Greenlanders, the ”Missing people” manuscript 2000-01.

Background
I followed my grandfather to the bench in harbor of Sannäs, Tanum’s parish, when I was a child. There I heard old stories told, stories that had been told from generation to generation over 1000 years. Most of them I have been able to track hard evidence for in my looking for remaining sources written mostly in Latin.
This is one of the stories I heard of back in mid 1950’s. Then a myth now hard reality about the forgotten history of the past.

Bishop sent to Vinland in 1050’s
There is a very surprising indication that Bishop Jon first appointed to become Bishop for the Icelanders and then sent by the Catholic Church to become Bishop of Greenland, not only got the Greenland but also to Vinland. Crossnes in Vinland was one of the two early Mededival dioces under Gardar See. Greenland’s See first was built in Western Settlement. Moved in 1130’s to Gardar.

Among the few Scholars of History and/or Religion who studied existing sources was Anders Magnus Strinnholm, Member of Swedish Academy char 17 1937-62. He wrote from Papal documents that Bishop Jon travelled from Greenland to Vinland in 1050’s. Among other things he also noted that Bishop Jon were sent to Vinlands residents to spread Christianity.

One of the most written about Bishop Jon also called Jonus the sources are Swedish Academy member to chair 17 1837-62, Anders Magnus Strinnholm.

Another who written about Bishop Jon’s Mission to Crossnes, Vinland was Dr. Luca Jelic who gave a speech in connection with the International Catholic Science Congress in Paris in 1891. (the tip was given to me by a member of the French Academy in late 1990’s. I received the member’s own papers from studying History as well as where to look for to French translated texts from early Medieval Age on, mainly Papal documents written in Latin

But there’s more.

As young Bishop Jon had studied religion in Germany in order to become a priest. In some sources it’s said that Bishop Jon had Irish ancestors. In other that he had Saxon background. It’s probable but not proven that it was Archbishop Adalbert himself who sent Bishop Jon on a his mission. In mid 1000’s Bishop Jon came to Iceland where he remained four years. Then he travelled on to Greenland. In 1059 Bishop Jon sailed from Greenland to Crossnes Vinland. He could with his own eyes see that the Greenlanders in Vinland had becomed friends with the Indians after the early battle where Snorri Thorbrand’s son Thorbrand was killed in year 1003.

What makes this extra interesting is that the parish in Vinland Bishop Jon visited was called Crossnes. Same name as the place in Vinland where Karlsefni and his sailing friends is said to have built some huts.

According to documents Bishop Jon is believed to/said to have converted some Vinlanders to Christianity. Also a few Indians. (word used can be translated to natives in today’s vocabulary). What happened next was that shortly there after some of the heathen Vinlanders are said to have killed Bishop Jon. Which thus makes Bishop Jon the first Christian martyr in North America. It’s sad that this story from still existing documents never been translated from latin to any other language than French…

Now this is the case for many more stories regarding the Norse settlers in Greenland and North America as well as the contacts between Christian believers in for example Crossnes and the Papal Church. Very few primary sources for this are translated into any language other than French from Latin. Probably this is one of the reasons that awareness of existing contacts somehow got lost over the centuries. In 1364 Ivar Bardarson who been in Greenland and visited dioceses under Gardar See paid the tithes for Crossnes to the visiting Papal delegate in Bergen. Btw. same delegate later became Pope….

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Early American-Norse History almost always forgotten….

Saw a documentar program on TV yesterday. Produced by the excellent BBC…. and in one of the scenes an Englishman said to his American friend: You have 200 years History we have 2000…

Old History is rarely mentioned today. That’s one thing. Thus most scholars and ordinary people don’t know that more than 340 years before Christopher Columbus sailed westward this information regarding North and South America was given to the Pope year 1134 AD…..

Chapter: Greenlandic/Icelandic history of 1100’s.

© Johansson Inger E, Gothenburg november 2014 excepts from manuscript Greenland and Greenlanders, the Forgotten people, Johansson Inger E Gothenburg 2000

Nicholas Bergthorson tells Pope about the Sea between Markland and Vinland Source:Nicholas Bergthorson, Leidarvisir och borgaskipan, written in first half 1100′s.
One copy was given to the Pope 1134)

From Leidarvisir and borgaskipan:
”North of Germany is Denmark. Ocean extending into the Baltic Sea, near Denmark. Sweden is east of Denmark and Norway in the north. North of Norway’s Finnmark.
….
Beyond Greenland, southward, there Helluland and beyond it Markland, from there it is not far to Vinland. which some people think stretching all the way to Africa. England and Scotland is an island but is separate kingdoms. Iceland is a large island to the north of Ireland
and
From Biarmaland northward all the way until you reach Greenland. South of Greenland lies Helluland, then Markland , then it is not far to Vinland the Good. Which some believe extends to Africa. and if that’s true, the sea must extend between Vinland and Markland..…

There were no satalites in sky in 1134. No official knowledge anywhere else that there was land south which was supposed to streach all way over to Africa south of an extended sea.
IF this isn’t one kind of information needing facts to have been told by someone – How do you believe that this was known by Pope in 1134?

At least the written book from 1134 gives good evidence that the Norse Viking sailed far south of New Foundland.
There are even more information regarding America’s fauna given in a book written by a Norwegian monk in 1200’s. But that’s an other story.

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North America – Greenland, forgotten history

History gives more information than most are aware of. Including Historians of our own days. Roots from the past keep lingering on with or without our knowledge.
Yesterday the Prime Minister of Turkey said that the Muslims were in America before Columbus.

Turkey Erdogan claims Muslims discovered Americas, Washingtontimes.com 2014/nov/15 How can a land that been discovered long before 1174 by Norse Vikings and where there still exists a book from first half of 1100’s. Book presented in one example to the Pope in 1134……

Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey’s Erdogan, BBC.com 15 november 2014

Thus it might be true that the Muslims visited America before Columbus,
but the Norse Greenlanders had been there long before as well as settled on mainland America long before. At least two dioceses in NA paid tithes to the Papal Church in 1364. Tithes colleted by Ivar Bardarson. This article deals with American history from first part 1000’s and some forgotten facts dealing with the all over asked question: Did Columbus know about a mainland south of Greenland

Erdogan: Muslimer hann före Columbus, Aftonbladet 16 november 2014
Erdogan: Muslimer hann före Columbus, GP 16 november 2014

norah4history

Greenlandic/Icelandic history of 1100’s.

© Johansson Inger E, Gothenburg november 2014 excepts from manuscript Greenland and Greenlanders, the Forgotten people, Johansson Inger E Gothenburg 2000

Nicholas Bergthorsson, Sea between Markland and Vinland mentioned by in Leidarvisir och borgaskipan written in first half 1100′s. One copy was given to the Pope 1134)
Leidarvisir and borgaskipan:
”North of Germany is Denmark. Ocean extending into the Baltic Sea, near Denmark. Sweden is east of Denmark and Norway in the north. North of Norway’s Finnmark.
….
Beyond Greenland, southward, there Helluland and beyond it Markland, from there it is not far to Vinland. which some people think stretching all the way to Africa. England and Scotland is an island but is separate kingdoms. Iceland is a large island to the north of Ireland
and
From Biarmaland northward all the way until you reach Greenland. South of Greenland lies Helluland, then Markland , then…

Visa originalinlägg 389 fler ord

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